tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post8147066812052411259..comments2023-11-19T00:42:48.156-08:00Comments on balancing life: Saying it as it isSunilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07776658071546232685noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-30923746590905116592008-05-26T21:26:00.000-07:002008-05-26T21:26:00.000-07:00Dear Sunil, I stumbled upon your blog and it's a p...Dear Sunil, I stumbled upon your blog and it's a pleasure to read your thoughts.<BR/><BR/>I have studied & lived in India all my life. It seems "I was born intelligent, education ruined me" is an apt statement for our education system. Originality or creativity is never honoured/rewarded and it kills the thought process. The pupil becomes fit for a clerical job where he is not supposed to ask why... He just has to do his job, 9 to 5. <BR/>But, I feel, things are improving for the coming generations, with new schools and institutes and new and unexplored ways of teaching. Hope, the dilemma an Indian student has about himself would soon become history.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the post and this blog!Abhishek Dadhichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02939418751560521546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-29967351994349365282008-04-26T23:46:00.000-07:002008-04-26T23:46:00.000-07:00A way to measure "betterness" is to use the old ad...A way to measure "betterness" is to use the old adage- the proof is in the pudding.<BR/><BR/>At the end of grad school, is there any qualitative difference between students with an undergraduate education in the us and those from other locations?<BR/><BR/>The answer is pretty clear, Indians or Chinese folks have no particular advantage left at the end of graduate school whether it is in terms of mathematical ability , or to design experiments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-35373903251002555832008-04-21T08:58:00.000-07:002008-04-21T08:58:00.000-07:00There are advantages of being brought up in a deve...There are advantages of being brought up in a developing nation like India, where the competition is scorching. More than the reaction, it is the attitude in people of a particular nation, that reflects in the education system. In India, people believe that you need education and only education to succeed in life. In the west, they have crossed this period a long time ago. They are already in the 'business' of education. So, if you tell them that they are bad, you lose the Fees. (India is fast catching up, in its own way)<BR/><BR/>Simple Economics.<BR/><BR/>Destination Infinity.Destination Infinityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03219687030496120872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-47133240617882160872008-04-07T15:59:00.000-07:002008-04-07T15:59:00.000-07:00I dont think the answer is either/or.. the system ...I dont think the answer is either/or.. the system should have a mix of both. A kid can go only so far with endless mollycoddling and on the other hand, the strait-jacket ways of Indian education also is hard on kids who need help.<BR/><BR/>Parents ought to be friends with their kids but also ensure discipline.<BR/><BR/>Indian Vedic traditions of education - in my view - were pretty straight-forward with honesty from the Guru but also with respect. A simple example would be the lesson of Gita. Arjuna kept on asking question after question, while Krishna was fairly authoritative, he did not beat around the bush or push Arjuna away. He answered him.<BR/><BR/>That, I believe, is the right way.<BR/><BR/>Cheers,<BR/>desh<BR/>drishtikone.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-86944967507308678612008-03-27T04:08:00.000-07:002008-03-27T04:08:00.000-07:00Hey Sunil, still getting caught up with my feed re...Hey Sunil, still getting caught up with my feed reader so just read this post. I came over to say that I think that system 1 namely ours, leaves us better prepared for careers in science...but from your comment thread, I appear to be a majority of one...CuriousCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05892148471413222906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-75063799547711979682008-03-21T17:46:00.000-07:002008-03-21T17:46:00.000-07:00sunil, I am sure there is, but I don't know how s...sunil,<BR/> I am sure there is, but I don't know how simple it is to find it. How we are educated and the attitudes that we are conditioned by are strongly influenced by tradition and culture. <BR/> <BR/> I do think though that education in India emphasized a mastery over *information* over analysis. This was the case in IIT at least, where we were taught a lot of stuff, much of it advanced, but were never really allowed to analyse and truly understand it. As you said earlier, the answers were always of paramount importance, rather than the process of arriving at a certain conclusion. However, to truly understand something, the process of deduction or arriving at a conclusion is at least as or even more important than the conclusion itself. I had some good professors who did understand this distinction, but the system of education and the general attitude towards what constitutes true education did not help them very much.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-60039182356980092952008-03-19T19:30:00.000-07:002008-03-19T19:30:00.000-07:00hi sunil,when i went through this blog i have no w...hi sunil,<BR/><BR/>when i went through this blog i have no words to express my hapiness...<BR/><BR/>i agree with u 100%no doubt about it..even in my sister's home her son used to get scoldings for not doing well in academics but i found he was very much interested in music...<BR/><BR/>when i joined him in the music class he is doing great....<BR/><BR/>parents should know there kids interests and then find out ways to nurture it if not try to make him understand thats not viable...<BR/><BR/>let the coming generation ie we atleast practice that ....<BR/><BR/>regards,<BR/>thiyagasundaram<BR/>http://flyformoney.com/<BR/><BR/>pilot, IAFsundarbabyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14645998113665055655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-68389648514719713842008-03-12T06:49:00.000-07:002008-03-12T06:49:00.000-07:004colors.....yes indeed, much is changing in india....4colors.....yes indeed, much is changing in india.<BR/><BR/>Anon.....yes, you might be right about some small, elite schools like Caltech or MIT. But in most of the other ones (including the larger Ivys), that tradition continues. And yes, a lot of Indian students think there is only one correct answer. That goes back to the educational system that is "closed" and rigid. Thinking on ones own is, like a mastercard, priceless. <BR/><BR/>krishna......so do you see such a balance being struck any where? You certainly need to encourage talent without telling them they are born to rule the world.<BR/><BR/>Ashutosh...there certainly is quite a lot for both systems to borrow. But how much of the good in the system here is likely to permeate into the Indian system is anyones guess. Your post is most interesting. There is much to comment there about, but it first needs a more critical reading.Sunilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07776658071546232685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-86161858294899863512008-03-11T11:31:00.000-07:002008-03-11T11:31:00.000-07:00In fact this reminded me of a remarkable story tha...In fact this reminded me of a remarkable story that inspired a post:<BR/>http://ashujo.blogspot.com/2008/03/rote-aint-that-bad-paranjape-vs-hardy.htmlWavefunctionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14993805391653267639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-72191598881287787062008-03-11T10:35:00.000-07:002008-03-11T10:35:00.000-07:00I think none of the two systems is actually better...I think none of the two systems is actually better, but ironically I think that both of them can borrow elements from each other.Wavefunctionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14993805391653267639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-28863079214348716412008-03-08T19:42:00.000-08:002008-03-08T19:42:00.000-08:00Sunil, I can tell you that IIT's are not much dif...Sunil,<BR/> I can tell you that IIT's are not much different. Much as they may appear confident and assured, there are many graduates of IIT's who also have the same problem with self confidence that you point out (I am an IIT alum BTW). You see, when kids enter IIT, most of them truly believe that they are geniuses and that the world should be thankful to them. This attitude is pretty systematically deconstructed, starting from their very first semester, and with a few exceptions, most of them do lose a fair bit of their confidence. <BR/><BR/> This is quite in contrast to my experience with undergrads that I came across as a grad student at an Ivy league place. There, the students came in with pretty much similar attitudes, and these were reinforced over their stay. In this sense, my experience is pretty similar to yours, although I am agnostic about both situations (actually I think both extremes are bad, although I think the latter is easier to recover from than low self esteem). I think there is no real necessity to either praise them and tell them that they are "future leaders", nor to deconstruct and undermine their opinions of their abilities. They are not high school students after all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-25792188866807580812008-03-07T20:10:00.000-08:002008-03-07T20:10:00.000-08:00Sunil,I think that the best undergrad schools in t...Sunil,<BR/><BR/>I think that the best undergrad schools in the US, like Caltech do not have that tradition. I personally feel that most people, especially in India, tend to think that there is only be one right answer. What one learns while doing science is that the point of it is the opposite-- we make progress usually by questioning what we think is right and also that there are many "right" answers to a question (e.g., Gauss gave 4 proofs of the fundamental theorem of algebra). And that never gets taught directly in any school, whether in India or the US. One just learns it while doing science. So, I personally feel that there is no education that helps people in any particular sense, although going through highly competitive places often helps one develop many skills that become useful later. <BR/>I think that the educational system should provide encouragement to think on one's own, which would necessarily mean that we question our own ideas at all times and if we understand that that's the process of progress, we would not suffer either insecurity or misplaced confidence in our abilities. <BR/><BR/>AniketAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-26202668281907466712008-03-07T20:02:00.000-08:002008-03-07T20:02:00.000-08:00I am inclined to agree with your first set of obse...I am inclined to agree with your first set of observations (I don't know much about the second set). However, being an ancient grad student in India, I have also observed too many fresh undergrads who come to grad school show traits from the second set: high self confidence, ambition, glib talking skill; but not enough ability. It takes them a long time in grad school before they realize that self confidence, good communication skills etc. are only addons.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com