tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post113860525319374652..comments2023-11-19T00:42:48.156-08:00Comments on balancing life: If music be the food of love (Part I)Sunilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07776658071546232685noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-20704879385362441152008-01-03T20:34:00.000-08:002008-01-03T20:34:00.000-08:00Sir please note there was nothing called 'Carnatic...Sir please note there was nothing called 'Carnatic Music' to start with.<BR/>The formal form of present day Karnataka Music started during Vijanagara empire led by the revolutionary works of Sri Purandara Daasa’s institution. Different forms of music might have existed before that but not the formal form of Karnataka music. 'Carnatic' is a name given to certain geographical area of South India mostly by Moguls. British continued to use it and possibly associated with ‘Karnataka Music’. Mostly after 1964 when Mysore State was renamed as 'Karnaataka state' many tend to use ‘Carnatic music’ in place of ‘Karnataka music’. But everyone knows in ‘Karnataka music' Karnataka stands for classical music of South India, not the state of Karnataka. All great musicians prefer to use ‘Karnataka Sangeeta or Sangeetam’ including the great trinity. Though it may too late to reverse the use of ‘Carnatic’ it is better to start all articles as ‘Karnataka Sangeeta or Sangitam AKA Carnatic music.’ Then new comers can follow the history clearly with no confusion<BR/><BR/>South IndianAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-13845521506842177762007-04-27T08:05:00.000-07:002007-04-27T08:05:00.000-07:00I must say, that is a wonderful post on the histor...I must say, that is a wonderful post on the history and evolution of Carnatic music. Wonderful post...<BR/><BR/>As a side-note, you can check out http://www.hummaa.com/index.php<BR/><BR/>It has a very good collection of Carnatic music.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-1166181902002521822006-12-15T03:25:00.000-08:002006-12-15T03:25:00.000-08:00Hi sunil,This is the first time I am writing to an...Hi sunil,<BR/><BR/>This is the first time I am writing to anyone on the net, with a wee bit of apprehension:))<BR/>Today I was browsing on the net looking for songs on uday ravi chandrika raagam aka sudha dhanayasi(which incidentally my teacher garu taught me only today:)and I was looking for specifically annamaiyya keertanas.Somehow googling I came to your blog and read this write up which was amazing. You have a profound amount of knowledge in carnatic classical. Please continue to write somemore. I hope to keep learning:)<BR/>BTW,I viewed your profile too and was glad to know that you are a PG Wodehouse fan like me.<BR/><BR/>Thank youAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-1141665834686026472006-03-06T09:23:00.000-08:002006-03-06T09:23:00.000-08:00Hello,Anonymous proxy list from today :61.161.109....Hello,<BR/><BR/>Anonymous proxy list from today :<BR/><BR/>61.161.109.118:33550<BR/>60.3.125.3:12965<BR/>61.185.52.183:3117<BR/>61.189.132.214:32423<BR/>61.239.249.28:16764<BR/>61.235.105.8:29832<BR/>61.233.191.162:26999<BR/>61.239.249.28:11010<BR/>61.136.112.20:2425<BR/>61.145.184.50:12200<BR/>61.164.0.202:3826<BR/>61.35.41.178:38092<BR/>61.35.41.178:36201<BR/>61.35.41.186:19874<BR/>61.35.41.186:20945<BR/>61.37.95.228:29610<BR/>61.37.95.228:29407<BR/>61.35.41.189:30744<BR/>61.37.95.215:20936<BR/>61.28.6.202:24278<BR/>61.168.19.152:17987<BR/>61.235.105.8:29930<BR/>61.52.180.139:18221<BR/>61.49.119.83:21068<BR/>61.52.180.139:16791<BR/>61.52.234.224:41489<BR/>61.52.171.24:31855<BR/>61.52.166.84:28589<BR/>61.52.143.146:34478<BR/>61.52.59.103:19773<BR/>61.168.19.152:21200<BR/>61.52.37.34:36758<BR/>61.233.165.152:37130<BR/>61.251.18.82:22748<BR/>61.52.154.115:13635<BR/>61.178.144.58:2220<BR/>61.53.233.28:38313<BR/>61.54.135.56:20602<BR/>61.53.71.71:30810<BR/>61.55.138.97:3748<BR/>61.57.69.224:40724<BR/>61.54.224.106:36897<BR/>61.57.84.12:33315<BR/>61.57.96.133:30007<BR/>61.57.84.12:30049<BR/>61.57.78.187:31302<BR/>61.57.112.146:10863<BR/>61.76.226.237:2351<BR/>61.52.139.207:36856<BR/>61.54.209.36:28351<BR/>61.35.41.189:31456<BR/>61.57.84.82:10619<BR/>61.35.41.186:39213<BR/>61.78.253.34:4748<BR/>62.118.204.186:11945<BR/>61.57.105.207:12212<BR/>61.57.105.207:34288<BR/>61.57.96.76:20416<BR/>61.57.96.76:20315<BR/>61.57.84.82:40275<BR/>61.54.88.135:10893<BR/>61.182.148.39:33596<BR/>62.108.214.237:26486<BR/>62.108.214.237:27273<BR/>61.41.239.43:15987<BR/>62.39.241.247:34500<BR/>62.121.72.177:1416<BR/>62.214.245.41:1859<BR/>62.178.122.94:11138<BR/>61.235.105.8:29963<BR/>62.178.126.220:33040<BR/>61.236.18.113:1046<BR/>61.82.229.160:2193<BR/>61.57.97.154:29876<BR/>61.68.32.17:1061<BR/>64.185.173.155:39109<BR/>61.97.159.185:14970<BR/>61.52.139.207:36702<BR/>61.79.56.59:6623<BR/>62.178.76.157:4765<BR/>61.57.76.152:34957<BR/>61.57.84.12:34030<BR/>61.83.30.122:2893<BR/>64.172.9.134:10929<BR/>61.57.112.146:42560<BR/>66.123.93.75:13993<BR/>65.197.17.199:33640<BR/>65.104.41.130:22369<BR/>61.54.209.36:30542<BR/>62.241.239.29:30681<BR/>61.54.88.135:10998<BR/>62.21.87.109:28509<BR/>64.162.141.126:1204<BR/>61.235.105.8:30126<BR/>66.176.71.221:39079<BR/>62.108.214.237:26747<BR/>61.57.157.205:17701<BR/>66.214.169.83:11904<BR/>66.214.34.20:38990<BR/>66.61.102.72:23242<BR/>66.169.210.4:42395<BR/>66.169.210.4:10140<BR/>62.178.122.94:13894<BR/>61.57.80.163:34714<BR/>62.87.230.232:4127<BR/>62.178.126.220:10051<BR/>63.245.96.230:37252<BR/>61.57.96.76:20364<BR/>66.61.11.152:21243<BR/>67.163.148.136:25989<BR/>63.138.216.20:15579<BR/>67.107.20.220:10226<BR/>67.191.106.181:2133<BR/>63.13.165.239:39702<BR/>63.164.17.242:7510<BR/>61.57.96.133:30213<BR/>67.71.80.34:2225<BR/>66.219.187.233:12784<BR/>61.57.85.159:26029<BR/>64.185.173.155:25277<BR/>66.61.11.152:38493<BR/>68.116.38.72:13690<BR/>68.122.150.9:3898<BR/>66.12.74.149:27773<BR/>68.161.41.253:38336<BR/>66.134.231.20:18723<BR/>66.127.180.97:2635<BR/>66.224.227.121:10833<BR/>64.219.204.4:18593<BR/>68.184.1.4:28707<BR/>67.166.186.195:1025<BR/>68.35.220.77:8453<BR/>68.148.61.101:33199<BR/>61.54.88.135:15181<BR/>68.113.91.187:18722<BR/>68.163.147.219:21570<BR/>68.82.24.96:41595<BR/>68.116.146.107:39993<BR/>68.147.201.148:10518<BR/>68.114.127.14:36991<BR/>61.37.69.100:6236<BR/>67.168.78.114:14996<BR/>69.218.134.229:32656<BR/>69.139.151.5:28764<BR/>69.239.215.162:10944<BR/>66.214.153.191:41692<BR/>69.95.216.147:15075<BR/>69.200.241.215:32275<BR/>70.151.197.68:11342<BR/>70.169.132.87:36789<BR/>68.46.233.149:22632<BR/>69.222.226.212:4082<BR/>70.110.93.239:13210<BR/>70.21.122.200:19414<BR/>69.153.163.45:23876<BR/>70.236.122.33:7097<BR/>69.6.170.84:21416<BR/>64.32.244.26:20396<BR/>68.203.136.22:12447<BR/>69.95.216.147:23083<BR/>68.190.59.42:13830<BR/>69.222.226.212:29362<BR/>70.151.197.68:11701<BR/>70.114.137.64:29455<BR/>70.107.248.216:18431Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-1139242339762099752006-02-06T08:12:00.000-08:002006-02-06T08:12:00.000-08:00Manu.....thanks. I took a look at your blog, and w...Manu.....thanks. I took a look at your blog, and will keep a close eye on it. It's a great initiative you've taken up.....a blog dedicated to classical music! (the first perhaps).Sunilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07776658071546232685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-1139158948192402282006-02-05T09:02:00.000-08:002006-02-05T09:02:00.000-08:00vkrishna.....thanks. Yes....i couldn't remember ex...vkrishna.....thanks. Yes....i couldn't remember exactly where they found those compositions. Anyway....the ragas they were set to were lost and so the present form of many of his songs are actually not the original raga. Balamuralikrishna has done much to revive Annamachari compositions (just like Semmangudi revived many of Swati Tirunal's compositions). Swati Tirunal was one of Travancore's finest kings. He strongly believed in "dharmic" rule, and the duties of a king. But it was a time when Travancore was coming under greater English influence, and i believe he didn't like that much. But he did carry out a lot of reform in Kerala society, and was an admirable king.Sunilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07776658071546232685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-1139130127709524112006-02-05T01:02:00.000-08:002006-02-05T01:02:00.000-08:00Sunil, Very nice essay. I personally am extremely...Sunil,<BR/> Very nice essay. I personally am extremely fond of Annamacharya's compositions. He was a priest at Tirupathi for most of his life, and it turns out that his compositions were found in a corner of the main devasthanam itself (rather than caves, though I may be wrong). I used to wonder why there were so few of Syama Sastry's compositions available, now I know better ! Swati Tirunal was remarkable not only for his talent as a composer, but also for his liberalism and farsightedness. His mother and him instituted universal education for all (including girls) in Travancore during their reign, and is responsible for the advanced state of literacy and women's rights in Kerala today.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-1139024849367296382006-02-03T19:47:00.000-08:002006-02-03T19:47:00.000-08:00Frog....thanks again for commenting. I do need to ...Frog....thanks again for commenting. I do need to read that book.....just to see the notations and sahitya of those compositions, and yes, there isn't much dispute that they are authentic (i didn't say there was). Yet having the notations is one thing, and knowing the song is another. It's a great pity, but very few musicians can render even ten or fifteen of Shyama Shastri's compositions well. <BR/><BR/>That article link is really nice....and i'll totally agree that it's another disaster. People haven't really devoted more space to several beautiful Thyagaraja kritis. But thats how it works sometimes. Perhaps some one will come along, and revive some of these...you never know.Sunilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07776658071546232685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-1138893236543322692006-02-02T07:13:00.000-08:002006-02-02T07:13:00.000-08:00But the actual notation of about 30 of them are un...<I>But the actual notation of about 30 of them are unknown</I>.<BR/><BR/> But the book gives notation for all 70 of them. I rudimentarily browsed through the introduction etc. to look for caveats saying that some 30 of them aren't "authentic" ( in the sense kRtis Smt. vidyA shankar did not learn from her guru shyAma shAstri, the great grandson of the great composer shyAma shAstri ). I couldn't find any.<BR/><BR/> About neravalizable lines abounding in tyAgarAja's kRtis - of course you are right, it is widely accepted to be the case. Also one reason why those kRtis ( being more malleable ) have undergone greater corruption/change from the original form. Incidentally, <A HREF="http://www.chembur.com/anecdotes/carnatic/sd.htm" REL="nofollow">this article</A> mentions what is probably one of the biggest disasters in this connection. To quote that article, <I>"Subbarama Dikshitar had planned to publish another large work containing<BR/>100 kriti-s of Shyama Shastri, 500 kshetrajna pada-s and the kriti-s of<BR/>Tyagaraja collected by Mr. Chinnaswami Mudaliar from the Walajahpet school. lt is our misfortune that he could not complete his project, and we are not able even to trace the manuscripts of his collection"</I>.<BR/><BR/> tyAgarAja having had greatest impact would have been okay if people devoted more space to the several beautiful and profound kRtis he has written.froginthewellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13065929662806737682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-1138810212489248482006-02-01T08:10:00.000-08:002006-02-01T08:10:00.000-08:00Hi Frog....thanks for commenting.Ok.....i was tryi...Hi Frog....thanks for commenting.<BR/><BR/>Ok.....i was trying to do too much with one sentence there. What i wanted to say was that dasa and vachana sahitya were traditionally sung in different ragas (from their present tunes), more often than not of folk origin. So, when you hear Jagadodharana in Kapi......it originally was not sung in Kapi, but something else. But that kind of music gives the singer the flexibility to select a raga of his/her choice and render the song in that. Arabhi is (afaik) not of folk origin. Natakurunji and nayaki might be or might not be (it's discussed often on various egroups/bulletin boards. Most people believe they are), but are both ragas that were popular well before the trinity. A lot of what i mentioned about Dasa sahitya i learnt from Mysore Nagamani Srinath's lec dems. She is an authority on (hari)dasa sahitya.<BR/><BR/>Yes...Vidya Shankar's books has 70 krtis of Shastri....and they're probably all genuine. It's becoming pretty accepted now. Good pointer. But the actual notation of about 30 of them are unknown.......and that really goes back to the handing down of the compositions to disciples.<BR/><BR/>That's a very interesting point about Dikshitar not having such a huge effect in kerala. Especially since he composed in Sanskrit, which should have been much more acceptable to the Kerala court than Telugu. His compositions are beautifully structured and precise, and when rendered well, an absolute pleasure to listen to (both for the music as well as the lyrics). But the one advantage (i think) Thyagaraja had was that his compositions allowed the singer an opportunity to showcase an elaborate "nerval" (Shyama Shastri's did too.....but there are other reasons why his compositions are not as prevalent). With a Dixitar composition, its a challenge to render it well, but gives little scope for elaborate "nervals".<BR/><BR/>Nice point about the ragas. Perhaps some one will make a rarer raga his/her own....and it'll become popular!! Balamuralikrishna keeps coming up with new ragas....:-)Sunilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07776658071546232685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-1138756509108649062006-01-31T17:15:00.000-08:002006-01-31T17:15:00.000-08:00sunil, nice post. Can you give references to nATak...sunil, nice post. Can you give references to nATakkurinji, nAyaki and Arabhi being of folk origins? The first two seem quite expectable given their vakra nature but Arabhi? Though <A HREF="http://www.sangeetham.com/others/archive.php3?combo_title=nATAkurinji&combo_date=&butt_archive=Ok&%24combo_title=Arabhi+%96+Part+II&%24combo_date=&idval=&fea=raaga+appreciation" REL="nofollow">this</A> seems to say that there is no real evidence that nATakkurinji had its origin in the ancient period.<BR/><BR/> A quibble : tyAgarAja lived in tiruvayyAr, not tiruvArUr. It was dIkShitar who lived in tiruvArUr and shyAmashAstri lived in tanjAvUr. The funny thing is that all three were born in tiruvArUr ( and around the same time! ). Another one : <A HREF="http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=594528230&searchurl=an%3DVIdya%2BSHankar%26y%3D0%26x%3D0" REL="nofollow">Smt. vidyA shankar's book</A> has 70 kRtis of shyAma shAstri with musical notation ( though the former edition has only 46, close to what you mentioned ). Till now I haven't heard of a controversy surrounding the authorship of these ( unlike dIkShitar and tyAgarAja kRtis where many later generations musicians have allegedly tried to pass their own kRtis as some trinity's ).<BR/><BR/> Actually I somehow wonder why dIkShitar did not have more impact on kEraLa than tyAgarAja : it was four of dIkShitar's disciples, the tanjAvUr quartet, who principally adorned the court of svAti tirunAL, the guy who imported some of the very rich tanjore tradition to bring some music to a by-then-culturally-decadent kEraLa ( in particular there are allegations, which I am inclined to believe that several svAti compositions were actually tuned, if not entirely composed by the tanjAvUr quartet ). I hope that some day the impact of dIkShitar will trump that of tyAgarAja :-))<BR/><BR/> Nice to see the point about kharaharapriya - which was virtually unexplored before tyAgarAja and brought to life single-handedly by tyAgarAja. It gives me hope that the rAgas that aren't considered profound today, if they fall into the hands of a really skilled composer, may reveal some profound aspects. However, no such thing seems to have happened after trinity ( as far as I know ).froginthewellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13065929662806737682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-1138735554426217382006-01-31T11:25:00.000-08:002006-01-31T11:25:00.000-08:00Hi Prasanth. There are some good books on carnatic...Hi Prasanth. There are some good books on carnatic music, written in English (I read the english ones primarily myself). For some trivia on Carnatic music greats, I had reviewed a <A HREF="http://balancinglife.blogspot.com/2005/04/carnatic-summer.html" REL="nofollow">book</A> earlier. It's light and very enjoyable, and touches upon the lives of a number of musicians.<BR/><BR/>Music in South India: The Karn-atak Concert Tradition and Beyond by T. Viswanathan, Matthew Harp Allen is supposed to be very good, and has excellent reviews, but i haven't read it yet. It is written so as to be easily understood by some one with little knowledge of the music. Vedams books has a collection of a number of different books, and their list is found <A HREF="https://www.vedamsbooks.com/carnatic.htm" REL="nofollow">here</A>. <BR/><BR/>Sujatha...i think i started reading and learning more about the music because i didn't like it when any one told me "this is how it <I>should</I> be sung", or "this can only be performed this way" :-). Then i became extremely interested in the details and evolution of the music, and the influences that changed it, and made it what it is today.<BR/><BR/>Srikanth.....thank you for such a detailed comment. Tanjavur (and another part of the Cauvery, Mysore, which i'll touch upon in my next post) was the place to be between the 17th and 20th century for sure. Most of the later developments in carnatic music happened here. And it was partly because of the "melting pot" of cultures that so many ideas were able to flow, with the best of various influences being adopted. The Marathas (apart from the various influences you listed) also probably speeded up the adoption of hindustani raagas in to carnatic music, since they brought many with them. You are also right about the other major Tamil composers like Bharati. And Arunachala kavi, Muthuthandavar were great pre-trinity composers, and contemporaries (or even before) Venkatakavi. I'm just very fond of Venkatakavi's compositions, that's all :-)<BR/><BR/>I believe Nagarjuna is acting as Ramadasa in an upcoming movie (he acted as Annamacharya earlier). I hope the music in the movie is good.<BR/><BR/>Nandakumar......thanks.Sunilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07776658071546232685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-1138722716582078212006-01-31T07:51:00.000-08:002006-01-31T07:51:00.000-08:00thanks sunil - and srikanth - for all that gyan. l...thanks sunil - and srikanth - for all that gyan. look forward to part 2.R.Nandakumarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06879162776342731034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-1138711046219622182006-01-31T04:37:00.000-08:002006-01-31T04:37:00.000-08:00By "Thanjavur," of course, I mean the Cauvery delt...By "Thanjavur," of course, I mean the Cauvery delta region.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-1138710346804356042006-01-31T04:25:00.000-08:002006-01-31T04:25:00.000-08:00A fabulous (not "post" in this case, but) essay! A...A fabulous (not "post" in this case, but) essay! A great read!<BR/><BR/>Thanjavur seems to have been a very happening place in those times! And it was a linguistic melting pot too: Telugu, Maratha rulers; Tamil, Sanskrit, Telugu, Kannada (the late "Periyaval" Chandrasekharendra was a Kannadiga) and Marathi scholars. The court-language of the Marathas was Telugu too. <BR/><BR/>Besides the intense composing activity, considerable work in musicology took place around (before) the Trinity period. The Mela-karta raga system evolved around this time, for example. Some of the kings were scholars themselves: Tulaja Maharaja wrote the treatise <I>Sangeeta Saramrta</I>.<BR/><BR/>Also to be mentioned is the Nama-sankirtana tradition in this region. The primary gurus of this tradition were Bodhendra Saraswati (of the Kanchi Matha), Sridharayya ("Ayyaval," a Telugu person). This was possibly influenced by the Maharashtrian <I>abhang</I> tradition.<BR/><BR/>The Maratha influence also extended to Mridangam playing. The terms, Chapu (as in the tala "Khanda Chapu") is probably from the Marathi "Chhaap" छाप; and "mora" (the concluding rhythmic pattern) from "mohra" मोहरा.<BR/><BR/><BR/>There were a number of works on Krishna-bhakti too in Thanjavur. And Krishna-bhakti is always expressed as... erotism! (That seems to be the convention.) Narayana Teertha (moved in from Andhra) composed the <I>Krishna Leela Tarangini</I>. Tyagaraja, as orthodox as they came,<BR/>created the <I>shringara</I>-laden opera <I>Nauka Charitram</I>. (I am intrigued.) And the numerous javalis, padams, etc.<BR/><BR/>Regarding composers:<BR/>Besides Venkata-kavi, there were other Tamil composers like Gopalakrishna Bharati (of "Nandanar Charitram" fame) and the Tamil Trinity (Arunachala-kavi, Muthuthandavar, Marimutha Pillai).<BR/><BR/>In Andhra, besides Annamacharya was the famous Rama-bhakta composer - Bhadrachala Ramadasa. He was greatly respected by Tyagaraja too and is mentioned in many of the latter's works.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-1138684728082773542006-01-30T21:18:00.000-08:002006-01-30T21:18:00.000-08:00I'm amazed at your knowledge of Carnatic music. I ...I'm amazed at your knowledge of Carnatic music. I learnt to sing when I was young, but was never intrigued enough to dig so deep into its origins.Sujatha Bagalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02140274113596874518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8212356.post-1138684472460110432006-01-30T21:14:00.000-08:002006-01-30T21:14:00.000-08:00Hi Sunil,Always used to wonder why so many of the ...Hi Sunil,<BR/><BR/>Always used to wonder why so many of the songs are in Telugu. BTW, can you suggest some good books that i can read on Carnatic music ? Especially in English?Prasanthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15361097905671284394noreply@blogger.com